Peter Black and South Wales West Liberal Democrats

School Buildings

Peter Black: It has been an interesting debate. Everyone who has spoken has shown their commitment to improving our schools, albeit from different angles perhaps. I was interested to see that we had quite a few history lessons from the Government's side today on how much money it spends, individual schools that have been improved, and a number of other aspects of the history of school building improvements since the Assembly came into being in 1999. I do not think that anyone doubts the Government's sincerity in that regard, or even that some achievements have been made. Money has been invested in schools, which we acknowledge and accept. Some very good new schools have been built, which are a credit to the area and to the local authority, and which benefit pupils tremendously by improving their education and the learning environment. At the same time, we must acknowledge that a huge amount has yet to be done. The 2010 target, which was set by the former Minister for Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, and which has been re-stated by the current Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills approximately a year ago, has not been and will not be met simply because there is still such a huge job to be done.

The PricewaterhouseCoopers report identified how much had already been spent on school buildings and how much was being put in that budget for the future, and yet there was still a gap of £749 million. Local authorities will not be able to bridge that gap alone, and so we desperately need assistance from the Welsh Assembly Government. That is the issue, the whole point behind this debate, and the reason why we make reference to the strategic capital investment fund. We feel very strongly about this. If we have that commitment to school buildings, and if we are to invest in them as we have all discussed today, there needs to be a significant contribution from that fund. Every local government leader in Wales would echo what I say by saying that they want to do this. They have their plans in place. Many of them have carried out their asset management plans, and many have a plan to deliver improvement. If they do not get that additional money, it will take twice as long as envisaged and, in some cases, they may not even get the programme off the ground. That is the urgency of this debate and of the need to make some commitment with the fund.

Alun Davies talked about the new school in Narberth. I have not been inside it but I have passed it on a number of occasions. It looks very impressive. I visited a new school myself last week, the new Welsh-medium school in Swansea, Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Llwynderw. I thought that it was an exceedingly impressive school. The facilities there are fantastic, particularly when you consider that, for the past seven years, the school has been meeting in a series of prefabricated huts attached to Bishop Gore Comprehensive School. They are delighted with what they have got. Whenever we have a debate in Swansea about whether we need a new school because parents want to hold onto an existing school, I propose to put them on a bus and take them to Llwynderw to show them exactly what can be delivered with a new school.

The Minister talked about her visit to Swansea last week. I know that, between her visit to Clwyd Primary School and Pentrehafod School, of which I am a governor, she was taken past Manselton Primary School, my local school, which was built in the last century but one. It is so bad that there is scaffolding around it with plastic sheeting over it just to keep the rain out, because every time it rains the water goes straight through the pall stones and floods down the stairwells, effectively making the top floor of the three-storey school unusable for teaching. That is possibly the worst school in Swansea, but there are several other schools in the same category in Swansea and, I am sure, all over Wales. They need the sort of investment that Manselton and Cwmbwla need for building new schools. However, a new school will cost the local authority £7 million. It does not have that money and it desperately needs some sort of capital injection from the Assembly Government to deliver that. It is not isolated in that situation; every local authority in Wales is in a similar position.

Alun also said that this Government has invested more money in school buildings than any Government at any time in history-£168 million in one year, I think he said. However, the shortfall is still there, and we need more of that money if we are to make progress. We cannot just sit still with our existing budget; we need to add to it. As I said, Swansea has an investment backlog of £147 million; we have an asset management plan, a school improvement plan and we are all ready to go, but the shortfall is still there. The council is showing leadership; the Assembly Government needs to show leadership, but above all the Assembly Government needs to show the colour of its money.

Janet Ryder argued against PFI and, as Alun Cairns said, there are other ways of doing this, but if the Welsh Assembly Government does not want to go down that route, it needs to offer more conventional funding. It is all very well to say that PFI is not for us because of all these problems, but if you do not put conventional funding or alternatives in place, it does not help much.

Alun Davies: Alun Cairns has unfortunately left the Chamber now, but what he did not say after his meeting with Andy Kerr was that the funding that the Scottish Government put into schools in Strathclyde, I think it was, left those schools unable to obtain any further investment, and the total cost to the taxpayer was far more than the actual cost of building those schools.

Peter Black: I was not making a specific point about Scotland. You referred to your trip to Sweden and the various alternative ways of getting private investment. There are alternatives, and we need to look at them. The Minister referred to the need for robust asset management plans. What I want to hear from the Minister is what the Government does once a robust asset management plan is in place. Will the Government give authorities some money as a reward for that to invest in schools?

A school buildings programme could help to kick-start the construction industry and help people through the coming recession. Of course, it is not only about construction, but about fitting out the school, and all the new schools in Swansea, for example, are fitted out with furniture manufactured by Remploy, which is a cause dear to my heart and to the hearts of several other Members. You have to fit out schools and buy equipment, both of which involve a huge input to the local economy. We need that as part of our strategy for dealing with the recession.

The money in the strategic capital investment fund should be used for exactly these sorts of projects. In my view, that is the only way in which the Government can make all schools fit for purpose. I urge Members to support the Welsh Liberal Democrats' motion.