Peter Black and South Wales West Liberal Democrats

Debate on school buildings

Peter Black: While I was listening to Jeff Cuthbert, I thought that I would re-read the Government's amendment, and it struck me that there was something schizophrenic about the whole thing. It refers, quite rightly, to the 18 years of underinvestment by previous Conservative administrations until 1997, but point 3, which seeks to reaffirm the responsibility of local authorities to put in place robust asset management plans, very much reflects what we have been told over and over about school buildings when we have raised the matter in the Chamber, which is that this is the responsibility of local government. However, you cannot have it both ways; it is either the Government's fault or local government's fault. You cannot say that it is the Government's fault before 1997, but that, after 1997, it is the fault of local councillors. The fact is that it is the fault of both. Those councils have been run by the Labour Party for many years, even while there was a Conservative Government in Westminster.

Jeff Cuthbert: Will the Member give way?

Peter Black: I will in a second. As the Conservative Party's 18-year tenure progressed, we came to a situation where there eere so few Conservative councillors in Wales they could probably have been counted on two hands. To say that this is the fault of the previous Tory Government or that this is local government's fault does not advance this debate. We must talk about what we have now and the situation that exists now; we must put the blame game to one side and deal with the situation.

Jeff Cuthbert: I raise the issue of the blame game again only because you just mentioned it. Are you arguing that the funding to local government by the then Welsh Office prior to 1997 was adequate?

eter Black: I am sorry that you have not listened to a word that I have said in the past one and a half minutes. I am saying that neither the funding from the Welsh Office nor the actions of Labour-controlled councils was adequate. The evidence is there for you to see; just go to any school in Wales. My local school in Manselton needs £6 million of repairs to make it fit for purpose, and even then it will not meet the demands of the foundation phase. You can go to schools across Wales and see the dereliction and deterioration; some schools are not fit for purpose. You will see for yourself that nothing has been adequate, either from central Government or local government, and what we need are solutions and not blame.

David Melding: Peter is making great sense; he hardly needs my help in his battle with Jeff.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Do you need to stand up in that case?

David Melding: I do need to stand up. Do I have your permission, Deputy Presiding Officer?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Yes, provided that you are quick.

David Melding: I am so grateful; you are gracious and we like your little quips from the side.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: They are not from the side; they are from the centre.

David Melding: What is amazing is that, in 1997, the Labour Government accepted the Conservative Party's spending plans, as you know. Yet we are being told by the Member that 1997 is the absolute cut-off between virtue and terrible sin in the public accounts, when the Government that he supports backed the Conservative Government's plans.

Peter Black: Thank you for that. I want to move on from 1997 now to talk about 2007 and the years ahead. We have heard a great deal about the £667 million that has been spent so far by the Welsh Assembly Government, and, like previous contributors, I welcome the money that has been put into our schools; it is an important and helpful contribution. However, the fact is that the last four years of the previous Assembly Government were wasted, because the Assembly Government was saying that it was putting all this money in, but it did not talk to local government about what it needed or try to form any sort of partnership with local government to take forward the agenda. In 2006, PricewaterhouseCoopers, on behalf of the Welsh Local Government Association, concluded that there was a £749 million gap between the available resources and what was needed to put right our schools. As Alun Cairns has pointed out in the past, that figure has now probably grown to £1 billion, almost just by virtue of Swansea's figure, which has virtually doubled to £147 million. I suspect that once we start actually doing things to the schools in Swansea, the figure of £147 million will grow as well. The last time that I met the director of education in Swansea he said that, far from the promise made by Jane Hutt the last time that we debated this on 3 October 2007 that we would have all schools fit for purpose by 2010, he and other education directors across Wales would be lucky to make 2025.

We need concerted action. We need those asset management plans from local authorities but we also need to have some investment from the Welsh Assembly Government. The settlement in relation to council tax is completely inadequate, as is the amount of capital in the budget. We have seen virtually no growth in that money for the next few years. Unless we start to get that growth, unless Jane Hutt is first in the queue at the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery's door, and unless she can secure substantial investment, we are looking at another 10 to 20 years before our schools are fit for purpose. It is not acceptable to me, the pupils, parents or to the teachers who have to work in those schools. I hope that we can get this sorted out for the sake of everyone.