The Benefits System (Peter Black a Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Gorllewin De Cymru)

The Benefits System

2012 Chwefror 1 5:30 PM
Gan Peter Black

Having spoken in an earlier debate on which I achieved consensus across the Chamber, I do not feel that I will do the same on this issue. However, I will do my best. I will say, from the outset, that the Welfare Reform Bill, which is going through Parliament now, would not be the Bill that the Liberal Democrats would have brought if they were in Government on their own. However, at the same time-[Interruption.] I am coming to that bit now-it is a different Bill because the Liberal Democrats are in Government. I believe that we have mitigated a number of particularly difficult aspects and removed the things we felt were unacceptable. That debate is still ongoing in the House of Commons, and it may go back to the House of Lords on some of the amendments. Therefore, I do not think that the Bill as it currently stands is in any way a finished document, and the Liberal Democrats will continue to fight for our views, both in Government and in Parliament, particularly in the House of Lords.

I took very much on board Leanne Wood's comments about stigma. She is right to an extent that people who receive benefits have been stigmatised over a long period of time. This is not a recent development; it is something that has happened over many years. There is a whole range of reasons why that has happened, but the important thing, from our point of view, is that this Bill must be about not just limiting the amount of benefit paid, but about reforming the welfare system to help people back into work. That is why the universal credit system is an important part of this Bill, given that it will mean that 900,000 individuals will be lifted out of poverty, of which 350,000 will be children. It will also mean that the Government will spend an additional £4 billion in increasing benefit entitlement, although that will be offset by reducing fraud and errors by £2 billion.

Joyce Watson: Thank you for taking an intervention. You referred to helping people back into work, but the Government with which you share power in Westminster is not actually helping people back to work. The first thing that it did was to immediately cut the fund set up by the previous Labour Government to help people back to work-the Future Jobs fund. How do you think the benefit changes that currently allow tax breaks for working mothers for childcare are helping those mothers get back to work? I can assure you that it is not helping them to get back to work; it is plunging them into debt.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. That intervention took 50 seconds, which is far too long. Peter, you will be compensated.

Peter Black: Thank you for that, Deputy Presiding Officer. Joyce, you will know as well as I do that Labour supported the universal credit in principle, because it supports the principle of getting people back to work and ensuring that the benefit system does not undermine people's ability to do that.

On the Future Jobs fund, which you referred to, you will know that the coalition Government took the view that it was not fit for purpose. I was just about to refer-and if I had prepared a written speech, I suspect that you would have read this in advance-to the announcement by the Deputy Prime Minister on the multi-billion pound fund to get young people back to work, which will create not just training places, but supported employment. Therefore, the coalition Government is investing huge sums of money in helping young people get back to work and training, which we will benefit from in Wales, as will the rest of the United Kingdom. Therefore, there is a clear commitment by the UK Government to create real, sustainable jobs, which will help young people in particular to get back to work.

I mentioned universal credit, but I want to move on to some of the other issues that Leanne Wood raised. Many of the examples that will be cited by Members, particularly with regard to disability benefits, will relate to the assessment process, which, in my view, is not fit for purpose. Surprisingly, it is run by Atos Healthcare, but that system, which was put in place some years ago, has a massive failure rate given the number of appeals against decisions in which people are successful and have their benefit reinstated. That, more than anything else, underlines the fact that that system needs to be reformed and changed. As Leanne said, all of the parties here-with the exception of Plaid Cymru which is not in Government at a UK level and has no experience of that-believe that there has to be some form of reform. How that reform is to be pitched is the subject of debate here. As Leanne said, Labour's commitment to a regional cap on benefit is an indication that it too recognises that there has to be reform, although I would not support that initiative.

Peter Black a Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Gorllewin De Cymru